Team World beats Team Mexico in Guadalajara, Hugo out in AAA, various numbers

CMLL

CMLL (MON) 08/19/2024 Arena Puebla [CMLL, El Sol del Puebla, Grada, Mano A Mano, Parabolica]
1) Dreyko, El Malayo, Rey Apocalipsis b Astro, Asturiano, Rayo Metálico
2) Lady Amazona, Persephone, Zeuxis b Lluvia, Princesa Sugehit, Tessa Blanchard 
3) Dark Magic, Espanto Jr., Okumura b Guerrero Maya Jr., Pegasso, Stigma
4) Magnus, Rugido, Volador Jr. b Akira, Ikuro Kwon, Mansoor 
5) Atlantis Jr., Místico, Templario b Kyle Fletcher, Robbie X, Rocky Romero 

This looked to be another sell out in Arena Puebla with Mistico being very over. Didn’t read strong things about the main event. It’ll air Sunday.

CMLL (TUE) 08/20/2024 Arena México [CMLL, Kaiser Sports, thecubsfan]
1) Full Metal, Mercurio, Pequeño Polvora b Acero, Aéreo, Fantasy
8:41
2) Calavera Jr. I, Calavera Jr. II, Inquisidor b Eléctrico, Leono, Valiente Jr.
12:56
3) Espíritu Negro, Pelon Encapuchado, Rey Cometa b Cancerbero, Luciferno, Virus
11:50
4) Lian Po b Bárbaro Cavernario [lightning]
9:32. Lian Po is a character from a mobile game (Honor of Kings); it appeared to be Blue Panther Jr. under the mask.
5) Fugaz, Neón, Star Jr. DQ Magia Blanca, Magnus, Vegas 
13:47. Debut of Vegas as an official Los Depredadores. Vegas unmasked Fugaz (after his mask was practically ripped off a few minutes earlier.) Sets up a singles match next week.
6) Ángel de Oro, Averno, Niebla Roja b Atlantis Jr., Titán, Volador Jr. 
15:24. Angel de Oro was eliminated, but snuck back in and fouled Atlantis Jr. to set up Niebla Roja’s win. Atlantis wanted a match with Angle de Oro. Angel de Oro unmasked Atlantis Jr.

It seems like it breaks down like Atlantis Jr./Angel de Oro in the main event and a Vegas/Fugaz lightning match. This also probably means the foreigners are working in Guadalajara next week or finished up by Tuesday.

The semi-main was the best match on this week’s show. The main event was a professional match that did pick up a bit as it went on.

Lian Pon is a very muscled and very agile comic book character. Blue Panther Jr. has cartoonish muscles, but asking him to be very mobile in a singles match is tough at that size. His decision to put on all that size is definitely hurting his wrestling, yet guys who look like Blue Panther Jr. will absolutely get oppurtinties (like playing a mobile game character) because they’re so big.

CMLL (TUE) 08/20/2024 Arena Coliseo Guadalajara [CMLL, Fuego en el Ring, Mas Lucha]
1) Dulce Kitty, Valkiria, Zorah b Adira, Magia Azul, Náutica
2) Chamuel & Tengu b KeMalito & Periquito Sacaryas
Scheduled as Átomo, Mije, Tengu vs Chamuel, KeMalito, Periquito Sacaryas, but Atomo ended up working Arena Mexico (part of the mobile game promotion)
3) Adrenalina, Explosivo, Fantástico b Crixus, Difunto, Raider
Los Magnificos won this time, and again challenged for the OCCIDENTE TRIOS
4) Esfinge, Máscara Dorada, Templario b Bestia Negra, Euforia, Gallero
5) Barboza, Dulce Gardenia, El Elemental, Furia Roja, Hijo del Villano III, Místico, Soberano Jr., Star Black, Villano III Jr., Zandokan Jr. b Akira, Dark Magic, Flip Gordon, Ikuro Kwon, Kyle Fletcher, Mansoor, Okumura, Robbie X, Rocky Romero, Yutani
Mistico defeated Robbie X to win it for Team Mexico.

The main event was said to be pretty good. (This turned out to be a Fan Leyenda show.) The foreigners keep losing these lead-up matches, which means they’re almost certainly going to win the Gran Prix on Friday—probably Claudio, maybe Yota.

CMLL (SUN) 08/25/2024 Arena México
1) Angelito, Kaligua, Pequeño Magía vs Pequeño Olímpico, Pequeño Violencia, Pierrothito
2) Hera, Olympia, Skadi vs Metálica, Reyna Isis, Sanely [Relevos Increíbles]
3) Hijo del Pantera, Star Black, Volcano vs Akuma, Felino Jr., Kráneo
4) Bárbaro Cavernario vs Ikuro Kwon [lightning]
5) Gran Guerrero & Stuka Jr. vs Akira & Yota
6) Atlantis Jr. vs Davey Boy Smith Jr.

That’s a second generation singles match I didn’t expect to see. The MLW guys are staying the longest and getting booked kindly. Hijo del Pantera makes another Sunday appearance.

Atlantis Jr. forms an all-masked man team with Serpentico and Fuego del Sol against the Gates of Agony on this Thursday’s Ring of Honor.

CMLL Informa tonight has

• Atlantis (?)
• Blue Panther (?)
• Niebla Roja (return from injury)
• Kyle Fletcher, Robbie X, Flip Gordon, Mansoor, Ikuro Kwon, Akira (Gran Prix)

Flip Gordon is like the voice of reason on that team. The Gran Prix foreigners showing up on Informa usually produces some sort of train wreck and I’m sure it’ll happen again.

CMLL says the Aniversario show is almost sold out. It’s only the upper deck and a few seats in the FREEDOM restaurant area that are left open. I would say CMLL overpriced the restaurant tickets but those are going to sell.

Playboy Japan interviewed Okumura. I assure you that if you click that link, there are no scantily clad Okumura photos. He talks about his career and his role in helping FantasticaMania become what it is.

In classic Mexican wrestling fashion, those English language CMLL tweets appeared for a day or two and then ceased again.

Hugo out in AAA

Hugo Savonivich popped onto Konnan’s podcast before Verano de Escandalo, and the two (accidentally?) revealed that Hugo had been cut down to three more shows in AAA for the rest of the year. “Three” may have ended up being TripleMania Mexico City. Savonivich announced via Lucha Libre Online that he was released from his contract. Savonivich said Dorian Roldan encouraged Savonivich to sign a contract elsewhere if he could find one. That sounded to me like AAA would still have interest in bringing Hugo back for occasional dates, but it came off as more definitely over in Hugo’s YouTube video. Savonivich praises everyone in and around AAA and insists he’s leaving with good feelings towards everyone. He mentions interviewing with JBL at midnight after TripleMania because he was asked and he wanted to help out, and that he’s going to finish up some voiceover work for AAA for free because he loves them so much. Savonivich goes as far as to say he was trying to lose weight to see if he might be a donor for Konnan’s kidney, though it seems like that idea didn’t work out. Hugo was told the reason for his contract was economic reasons, consistent with what was said on the podcast. He says the Mexican economy hasn’t recovered since COVID, and the AAA was expecting to get big money from a TV deal for years and years, and it just hasn’t happened. (There was no mention of Luchatitlan.) Hugo says he’s open to whatever job offers there and puts over his lengthy resume in the wrestling business and in helping to guide wrestlers to have a healthy life outside of wrestling in his role as a pastor.

Hugo Savonivich probably wants it clear it was an economic decision because others might believe it was for a different reason. Savonivich was a huge get for AAA when they brought him in. The Mexican wrestling fans, especially the very online ones, had turned hard against him as time passed. Part of it is that if fans turn against a wrestling show, the fans start to hate the most visible portions of the show, and that includes the announcers. Savonivich mentioning he was part of the AAA creative process also turned him into another pinata for people who didn’t like AAA’s booking. The most significant part of the dislike was because Hugo Savonivich the person turned into a Hugo Savonivich person soundboard at max volume, someone who seemed to be just yelling his famous catchphrases from the past with no context or interest in what was going on. He became a caricature of an announcer, which would produce a few viral moments but became way too much over a three or four show. Savonivich and Jose Manuel Guillen seemed to push each other to be louder and more reliant on hitting those catchphrases as time passed. (The surprisingly short time when ex-WWE partner Carlos Cabrera joined the crew worked better because Cabrera’s mellow seemed to balance the mix better. I think Guillen is better with long-time partner Bernado Guzman in a similar way.) Savonivich was also completely unfamiliar with AAA when he came in and was slow to pick up on the history; he never overcame feeling like an outsider to long-running fans. Some fans definitely enjoyed Savonivich in AAA, and I think English fans still have that nostalgic feeling for seeing his table get destroyed in WWE for so long. He was not my favorite, but there were more significant AAA problems. For me, this is one of those decisions where my feelings about the situation are far overshadowed by my desire never to hear about the situation again.

During the many shows AAA has not brought in Hugo, the AAA announce team has been Jose Manuel Guillen and Jesus Zuniga. I assume that’ll be the same going forward. The big difference is probably that Guillen and Zuniga are based in Mexico, and Hugo Savonivich required a flight from New York.

If we take Hugo’s story at face value, then AAA continues to make no sense. They can’t afford to bring in their announcer, but they’re focusing on Riddle, Dhesi, Singh, and Jarrett – those people aren’t coming cheap and need plane tickets too. Maybe AAA believes all those people are selling tickets and making money for the promotion – but how does a struggling company justify flying in JBL? Does Hugo talking about the big TV never coming in mean AAA’s been given some indication their dream to get on Univision proper is not happening or that the Unimas deal got axed? Or was Hugo just trying to make sense of things by retelling stories he’s heard in the past? Did AAA give Hugo a heads up this was coming when he was in Mexico, or did they just wait until the day he was home to tell him he wasn’t coming back? I hope not, but who knows any more about these guys?

Hugo briefly talks about TripleMania in passing during the podcast, primarily defending it and feeling it’s unduly hated by people trying to get views and money by bashing AAA. He says the Vampiro “five circles of hell” match was fantastic live; I had no idea it was meant to be five circles until hearing this. He also defends the La Parka spot without explaining it, saying Konnan, Dorian, and Marisela would never do anything to dishonor “Chuy”‘s memory.

a detour into numbers-land

AAA claims this year’s Triplemania attendance was 18,000. I trust that number is only slightly more than Alberto’s post-show promo, where he says it’s 23,000. (It’s an explicit part of the heel act that Dorian, Konnan, and Alberto are lying about how many people they drew to this show.) Both of them are just doing bits. It did remind me of this past weekend’s Wrestlenomics podcast (subscriber-only, worth every cent), where Brandon Thurston noted WWE’s stop in Mexico City had a gate of a bit over one million dollars US, according to industry site Pollstar and wondered where it would rank among the events ever held in Mexico. Gates and attendance were reported all the time in Mexican magazine coverage of lucha libre in its first forty or so years; it’s something that coverage in Mexico has shifted away from or just doesn’t have access to those numbers now. (Magainzes also had some protections that one-man shops do not.) I believe it was the Wrestling Observer newsletter that reported that the Ultimo Guerrero/Atlantis mask match (September 19th, 2014) had become the first Mexico show to achieve a one-million US gate. It’s likely the La Sombra/Atlantis mask match the following year (September 18, 2015) also crossed that benchmark. Around that time, I was fortunate to meet Dorian Roldan at AAA’s office in Mexico City. One of my memories of that day was noticing Roldan (or someone in AAA) had used one of the office’s white walls to do some math. I never got to ask him about it, but it appeared that writing was a breakdown of how many tickets would have to be sold at what prices AAA themselves would have to break that one million gate. That wall was across from Roldan’s desk, so the goal was in front of him daily. It’s certainly possible, maybe probable, that AAA did achieve that goal with the Psycho Clown/Dr. Wagner Jr. mask match (August 26, 2017.) But, for both the CMLL shows and the AAA shows, we don’t have numbers because there aren’t reported numbers in Mexico (and I lack the sources to get those numbers, and I haven’t made much of an effort to fix that.) Thurston bringing up Pollstar this weekend and AAA reporting a round number reminded me that I don’t have those numbers, but maybe someone does.

Brandon was kind enough to check for “Lucha Libre AAA” numbers in the Pollstar database and share it with me. In true lucha libre fashion, the information is incomplete. Pollstar has numbers for some TripleMania Mexico City shows and not others. They have some Showcenter events and some other random tapings. Pollstar doesn’t have a number for the Psycho Clown/Dr. Wagner matches, but it surprisingly includes a number for the limited attendance 2021 show. I’m not sure this information is valuable enough to be worth this long run up to it. Still, I’ll include the numbers from Pollstar via Wrestlenomics, as well as the “reported” numbers – all from cagematch, but probably from AAA telling the WON prior.

Date	Show	Location	Reported #	Pollstar #	Gate (USD)	Notable
08/09/2015	TripleMania	Mexico City (Arena Ciudad de Mexico)	18,000	14,713	$153,441	Rey Mysterio vs Myzteziz (Mistico); I purchased one of these tickets.
08/28/2016	TripleMania	Mexico City (Arena Ciudad de Mexico)	14,000	14,038	$125,994	Psycho Clown vs Pagano, hair vs hair
06/16/2018	Live Event	Cancun (Plaza de Toros)	no report	4,139	$37,224	Pagano vs Dr. Wagner Jr. vs Psycho Clown
08/25/2018	TripleMania	Arena Ciudad de Mexico	no report	12,803	$282,328	LA Park vs Pentagon Jr. vs Psycho Clown vs Hijo del Fantasma, mask match
09/29/2018	Live Event	Culiacan (Parque Revolucion)	no report	2,444	$8,144	Murder Clown & Pagano vs Great Eku & Rinoceronte
01/19/2019	TV Taping	Mexico City (Pepsi Center)	4,800	2,547	$46,187	La Mascara, Rey Escorpion, Blue Demon Jr. vs Dr. Wagner, La Parka, Psycho Clown
09/15/2019	Invading NY	New York (Hulu Theater)	3,000	3,708	$182,135	Dr. Wagner Jr. vs Blue Demon, Lucha Brothers vs LAX
01/25/2020	TV Taping	Mexico City (Pepsi Center)	no report	3,028	$68,113	Pentago Jr., Fenix, Psycho Clown vs LA Park, Rush, La Bestia del Ring
08/14/2021	TripleMania	Arena Ciudad de Mexico	4,500	5,007	$149,666	Psycho Clown vs. Rey Escorpion, mask/hair match (COVID attendance restrictions)
12/19/2021	TV Taping	Mexico City (Pepsi Center)	no report	1,765	$32,524	NGD vs Poder del Norte (late switch from live event to TV taping)
08/20/2023	TV Taping	Monterrey (Showcenter)	no report	1,872	$51,890	Pagano & Vampiro vs Antifaz & Chessman
11/26/2023	TV Taping	Monterrey (Showcenter)	no report	1,540	$48,318	TNA/AAA Ultraclash

There’s some you can take from this. It’s telling to see TripleMania years where the reported number is way over Pollstar and years where the number undersells what AAA did. AAA reporting 18,000 when it was 14,713 is why today’s “18,000” is not a number to be taken seriously. It’s perfectly random to find out that long-time Jalisco super heavyweight luchador Great Eku is a confirmed draw. Seeing the nothing special August 2023 Showcenter event outdraw the seemingly much more expensive TNA/AAA crossover show is certainly telling. (The August show was where Vampiro left his boots in the ring as one of his many retirements, but that was not advertised in the lead-up.)

Pollstar doesn’t seem to list the 2017 number. I have ticket prices from a chart I’ve maintained for many years; TripleMania’s high-end tickets more than doubled from 2016 to 2017, then experienced another 20% increase in 2018. For now, let’s go with those 2018 numbers; Pollstar says 12,803 tickets sold for a gross gate of USD 282,328. That figures to an average ticket price of $22.05. AAA had to sell 45,000 tickets to the show* – more than double the capacity – to get to a one million USD gate for that year. That’s not possible. AAA probably sold more than 12,803 in that missing 2017 year with Psycho/Wagner, but they also sold them at a lower price. AAA had a great night, but they don’t seem to have come even close to breaking that one million threshold on their best day.

(*—Yes, I know that the average price will likely go down as more tickets are sold, so the number of tickets sold would have to be higher; there are details I’m skipping to avoid overwhelming you with numbers.)

The Invading New York show is another combination of numbers that should stand out. With 3,708 attendees and an 182,135 USD gate, the average ticket is $49.12. That much higher average price is why AAA keeps throwing themselves at ideas to get into the US (and why NJPW does the same.)

Circling back to the start of this – is there any Mexican wrestling show with a larger gate than the WWE house show? We can say WWE outgated any AAA show. CMLL, in Arena Mexico, is the only other reasonable option. I don’t have Pollstar numbers for those shows, but I can do the basic math I should’ve done years ago. The one tricky part is the capacity question; no one knows the maximum number of tickets that can be sold in Arena Mexico. It’s changed over the years, and CMLL has given different numbers at different times. Let’s try some popular round number guesses, none of which are probably 100% accurate.

if Arena Mexico max tickets sold is	One million USD gate requires avg ticket price of
18000	$55.56
16800	$59.52
15000	$66.67

Tickets for both Atlantis mask matches (against Ultimo Guerrero and La Sombra) ranged between 16 USD and 202 USD. We don’t know what worked out on average. In that 2018 TripleMania show, though, tickets were between 17 USD and 278 USD, and the average of 22 is nowhere near the numbers in that chart. These are different arenas and pricing structures, yet it’s tough to believe CMLL got anywhere close to the number they’d need to get a million-dollar gate. Maybe the quoted one million dollar number for that is something I’m misremembering, or something that included food and merch and TuriLuchas travel prices on top of everything else to get to that number. That WWE house show number would’ve been much higher if they had thrown in those numbers, too. It is hard to escape the conclusion that the most enormous gate for professional wrestling in the history of Mexico was a WWE house show. If someone can spot a flaw in my numbers that proves that’s not correct, please let me know.

I Don’t Know What’s Going On In Tijuana

Generally, but also with the wrestling. Coming up

• EMW, the AAA partner in Tijuana, changed their Facebook page to reduce any connection to AAA. (It’s still in the logo, but only barely.) They’re announcing AAA-ish people for a show in the Auditorio on 09/14 (Cibernetico, Jack Cartwheel, Komander), but all the people are not under contract in AAA.
• A “Lucha Libre AAA Border” Facebook page popped up less than a week to announce they ran the Auditorio on 09/27. Their initial post teased people (Nemeth, Vampiro, Azul) who don’t make sense as appearing on a random AAA show in Tijuana, which made me suspect it was some sort of scam. They’ve since announced a couple of regular matches; Mesias & DMT Azul versus Psycho Clown & Cibernetico headline. Tickets are actually on sale.
• a mystery promoter has a show in the Auditorio on 09/28, with Dralistico versus Metalik as the headliner. The poster mentions a ticket website, but there’s no ticket on sale for this show there.

Tijuana’s long-running policy is only one lucha libre show a week at the Auditorio. That would mean one of those last two shows doesn’t really have a date, probably the Dralistico one. But the Lucha Libre AAA Border one is the weirdest—a Facebook page that came out of nowhere, with no sign of ownership, somehow has the AAA connecting in Tijuana. EMW lost it, and somehow, The Crash didn’t end up with it again? All of that is strange.

More AAA

Violent People had me on their latest Violent People Radio show, where I was held accountable for my major crimes—thinking TripleMania could be good. While it will be rough to serve 15 years of hard labor, I agree the punishment is justified. The show was fun.

Octagon Jr. says he’s going to cash in his “any title shot” victory in the Copa for the Mega championship. I still assume he will just get beat up to get heat, just like he got beat up to get heat for Parker Boudreaux.

Laredo Kid is back on Impact Thursday for the first time in eleven episodes, facing Jai Vidal and Bhupinder Gujjar, where the winner gets added to the Ultimate X match on the next show (Emergence, 08/30.) The other two wrestle on TV even less than Laredo Kid, so this is a rare moment where Laredo Kid is a definite favorite to win a TNA match.

GLEAT announced a bunch of AAA names for shows on 10/06 and 10/09

• Parker Boudreaux
• Sam Adonis
• Octagon Jr.
• Jessy Queen
• Faby Apache
• Hijo del Vikingo

TNA’s Los Rascals, who have also been on NXT frequently recently, will appear on those shows as well.

The latest Lucha Talk talks about TripleMania.

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter was published early this week. The TripleMania recap is based off notes of other recaps – he did not watch the show – and so no matches are rated.

TxT

TXT (SUN) 11/10/2024 Arena Veracruz, Veracruz, Veracruz
1) Ferrari & Ferrari Jr. vs Black Silva & Blue Silva
2) Keyra & Vanilla Vargas vs Julissa & Valentina
3) Halcón Suriano Jr., Hijo del Solar, Ultraman vs Accion Jackson, Australian Suicide, Travis Banks
4) Ciclón Ramírez Jr., Cinta de Oro, Huracán Ramírez, Metalik vs Bobby Lee Jr., Bobby Lee Ng, Hijo de LA Park, LA Park Jr.
5) El Hijo Del Santo & LA Park vs Dr. Wagner Jr. & Hijo del Fishman

They seem to have skipped over the 11/09 show in Puebla. I feel like match three is a sign Santo is probably outsourcing the work of booking these shows to someone else; I’d be surprised if he know who an Accion Jackson was. Those in the opener are Veracruz locals.

Other News

08/31 RIOT

• Prometeo & Kratoz vs Spider Fly & Noisy Boy
• Erik Ortiz (c) vs Lord Byron [RIOT CHAMP]
• Latigo & Toxin vs Hijo de Canis Lupus & Demonio del Aire – new
  • Demonio del Aire is maybe the only luchador wrestling under three different names now

Komander followed up losing on TripleMania by returning to Reynosa and also losing a title match there. Komander simply must get better at winning wrestling matches.

There’s a lucha libre art exhibit in Durango.