CMLL (SUN) 12/25/2011 Arena Mexico [CMLL, La Catedral]
1) Hombre Bala Jr., Sensei, Super Halcon Jr. DQ Inquisidor, Rayo Tapatío I, Rayo Tapatío II
Straight falls for the tecnicos, Rayos pulling Halcon & Bala’s masks in the first for the DQ and fouling them again in the second. Rudos dominated the entire match except the finish
2) Dalis la Caribeña, Goya Kong, Lady Apache b Amapola, La Seductora, Princesa Blanca
Tecnicas took 1/3 behind Goya splashes. Lady Apache and Princesa Blanca got into a fight as they were leaving, which didn’t seem to have much to do with the match.
3) Negro Casas, Pólvora, Volador Jr. b Dragon Lee, La Máscara, Valiente
Volador wore a Super Parka mask to the ring. Painful match. Rudos took first fall, tecnicos took the second fall. Valiente landed hard head first on the apron going for his dive, and was immediately taken to the hospital. Volador pinned Mascara with the backcracker.
4) Rush & Terrible b Marco Corleone, Mr. Niebla, Super Porky, Mr. Águila, Rey Bucanero, Hijo del Fantasma, Metro, Olímpico [CMLL HEAVY, #1 Contenders]
advertised as a decision match for the vacant title, but turned out to be just the final two earning a shot next week. Eliminations were Olimpico (by Metro), Fantasma (by Bucanero), Mr. Aguila (by Super Porky), Metro (Mr. Niebla), Super Porky (Terrible), Bucanero (by Rush), Niebla (by Marco) and Marco (by Terrible.) This left Rush vs Terrible, a rematch of a recent light heavyweight title match, as next week’s decision match.
CMLL’s done these ciberneticos where the final two people get a shot at a vacant title next week before – when they’re brought back the women’s and super light weight belts are the first two that come to mind – but they’re previously been clear about what the matches where. CMLL promoted a new heavyweight champion would be decided tonight, and just did not do it.
If this injury is anywhere near as serious as it sounds, it would probably take him off the 01/04 Tokyo Dome show.
Tercera Caida’s twitter says both the IWRG heavyweight (Headhunter, from Tabu) and DTU (Super Mega, from Joe Lider) titles changes hands. More tomorrow.
Other News
El Siglo de Torreon continues it’s interviews with visiting CMLL stars with Sombra. Sombra’s goal for 2012 is winning a mask, perhaps Mephisto or Volador’s. Sombra blames the downturn in lucha libre on the economy, on insecurity, and on the quality of lucha libre. They need to keep working hard to get the fans back. Sombra says he’s talked to Sin Cara, who told him he’s happy and planning on returning in two months. Sin Cara’s knee injury should keep him out a lot longer than that, but there was talk about him rushing back for WrestleMania. Sombra says he himself has never being invited to go WWE. Sombra has nice things to say about (still-yet-to-debut) Espanto Jr., who’s turns out to be Sombra’s cousin.
The MEXPW site is now hyping Supreme in matches which aren’t electrified cage matches against Damain 666. Something happened there, though I dunno what.
Rob posted the first ever Momentos Estelares. That should be back in the next month.
Links
- La Catedral has five more sets of CMLL recaps? I’ve counted at least 18 people he’s suggested should change sides next year.
- Ohtani’s Jacket reviews Blue Panther vs Negro Casas.
- Los Traumas celebrate the holidays.
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That’s a pretty shitty bait and switch by CMLL. Not unexpected though.
I thought Momentos had been around since like 1991?
It’s stuff like this that makes me not feel sad at all for the situation CMLL is in right now. They just ripped off their fans. Plain and simple. No CMLL fan can defend it. In fact the biggest CMLL fan over on La Catedral is so stubborn he didn’t even mention the swerve and refuses to acknowledge the bait and switch. If I was a paying fan I’d pretty pissed considering a live report said the show went less than 2 hours and I didn’t get my promised main event. Then again maybe Cesar isn’t paying to get in to these shows which would be quite interesting.
If AAA had pulled the same shit you can bet all media and fans would be up in arms over what a fraude AAA committed. When CMLL does it? Not a word. There goes the argument that everyone is against CMLL.
Are we sure Bala/Halcon vs Rayos Tapatios is for the masks next Sunday? Maybe just the first two falls will take place and the third fall will occur on January 8th?
Hopefully Valiente is okay. That picture makes it look brutal. Not a good sign when Alexis doesn’t post an update as usually for all injures he makes sure to note later on that it was just a scare. :/ Another live report mentions Dragon Lee also fell to the floor trying his dive but nobody was paying attention since they were all checking on Valiente.
Thoughts from yall about either Rush or Terrible as the next CMLL Champion? (I wonder if this match wont be changed at the last minute and someone like Ultimo Guerrero is placed in it as well, since he keeps talking bout the title and he wasn’t even in the match)
@Chk: Rush as a rudo can be the future of CMLL. He’s great.
@Rob: That’s because such tactics are expected from AAA at this point. When CMLL does it, it’s rare, so it stands out and catches our attention.
That’s why AAA is making “El Consejo” a comedy act. It’s more BWO than NWO. They are using this angle to mock CMLL’s attitude of superiority.
Both groups are very predictable at this point. That’s why I said “GDT draws 4,500 and it’s announced as 8,500”, and that’s exactly what happened in WON.
CMLL new lighting is a joke. It’s meant to look like the old AWA and NWA arenas that turned off arena lights and illuminated the ring only.
@LLL: so many things here
How do you get that El Consejo is a comedy group out of one televised skit where they destroyed the Wagners, and another taped bit where they beat up everyone without getting touched?
Do you have someone telling you that GdT drew 4,500? The lighting was the same there, so I have no idea by telling what number is right, but I would like to use the correct one and not one just created.
I think it’s highly unlikely that CMLL is looking at old AWA and NWA arenas to mimic their lighting style. It’s a lot simpler to assume someone got sick of seeing all the empty seats (maybe even a TV person and not a CMLL person) and told them to turn off the lights.
@thecubsfan: No one told me what GdT drew but I did say on this blog “4,500 will be announced as 8,500” and that’s indeed what happened. If they really had 8,500 that would put gate in the range of $200,000 and if that really is the case we’d hear about it. I think it’s totally reasonable to assume that an attendance of 8,500 in WON is around 4,500 in the building. It’s even more reasonable when you say it in advance and that’s what is reported.
Maybe I’m ahead of myself with El Consejo, but it just seems like it’s more of a comedy group meant to mock CMLL’s mightier than thou attitude. If they can’t get any big names to jump that’s certainly what it will be.
CMLL probably didn’t watch old AWA or NWA, but I just used it as an example because I see that stuff all the time on WWE Classics. The current shitty lighting resembles it.
I don’t think CMLL has turned many lamps off. It looks like the truss was raised higher and the lamps aimed directly down at the ring. They may be dimmed too. It’s stupid to darken the area around the ramp because those sections are usually filled with people who want to be close to the wrestlers coming to the ring. But CMLL runs the same building several times a week for television. They’ll work it out. That’s the benefit of running tv from the same location every week.
Rush as CMLL Heavyweight champ, REALLY? Sure he is their breakout star but I would have rather seen Marco. Marco is an established star and could have been used as a corner stone. Rush is getting established (when he is NOT getting booed in favor of established rudos who have the respect of the fans.) I don’t see El Terrible as champ either but I’ll take him over Rush at this point.
@Rob: Dragon Lee ALWAYS falls, what else is new? Valiente has been good for some time so his injury is a bigger deal. I too hope Valiente gets better soon.
“I think it’s totally reasonable to assume that an attendance of 8,500 in WON is around 4,500 in the building. It’s even more reasonable when you say it in advance and that’s what is reported.”
What you find reasonable, I find silly. Put aside what number turned up in the newsletter. You are saying you guessed there would be 4,500 people, so based on nothing else at all, there were 4,500. You are complaining people are taking made up numbers as accurate, and you are offering your made up number as accurate. That’s where my problem is.
If we could approach it in a more specific way – like going thru recent TV tapings and finding out that AAA was routinely reporting their attendance 40% higher to the WON (which, let us not forget, actually means nothing because maybe 5% of the people reading the newsletter actually even care about AAA enough to read that part making there no real gain to work these numbers, but let’s say they have their reasons) – then we’d have some scientific method to coming up with these numbers. Just plucking a number out of air based on our presumptions makes the whole endeavor worthless.
I will say, not too long ago, I had similar qualms about the where certain facts where coming from. I even went directly and asked if the facts were coming from person X. The person I asked, maybe more nicely than I deserved, confirmed they were coming from X – and person Y and person Z and a few letters of the alphabet I had not begun to consider. I really felt dumb not thinking it all out before opening my mouth, but I hope I’m getting some mileage out of it by sharing the important part of the lesson with you: we may know someones talks to a particular person, but we don’t know who else they’re talking to and really shouldn’t presume to know.
I know this is not going to change people’s minds on this, but it’s still silly to throw out one of the very few sources for information because he happens to actually talk to the people in charge. The information isn’t perfect – as the last TV taping number in Puebla showed – but I’d still go with it over anything else.
@thecubsfan: It’s kind of sad that WON reports jacked up attendance figures for AAA. But he can’t offend his sources. If they say “8,500” for GdT, WON has to print it because if his sources don’t see that in the sheets that week, they won’ t like it, and may stop giving him other insider info. It has been going on for so long, no one really questions it. “10,500 at Juan de la Barrera”. Remember that one?
When I read a AAA attendance figure I usually cut it in half.
@LLL: if Dave was cut off from inside AAA sources, it would have 0.0000000000% on his bottom line*. And he’s made that clear himself.
If every AAA attendance printed is doubled, does that mean TripleMania drew under 10K and less than Jucio Final?
(I wouldn’t unsubscribe…because I need those results in the old WONs. I guess unless I could just find ways to buy them on my own.)
I don’t think Triplemania drew 17,000. Maybe the figure wasn’t doubled. I’m probably wrong in saying doubled, but saying they exaggerate by about 50% is probably more accurate.
According to the observer, the Arena Mexico show on 11/22 drew 3,350: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6200/arenamexico2.jpg
Two issues later, they called this Perros del Mal show “a sellout of about 4,000”: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4923/sexenal.jpg
These numbers are totally random. The Arena Mexico picture does not show 80% empty seats, and the second picture is neither a sellout, nor looks it like more than some hundred fans.
On 11/26, AAA held a taping at a nearly empty arena in Pachuca: http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4603/pachucah.jpg
“Coincidentally”, the observer did not mention the attendance number of that show. On the other hand, they reported that a spot show in Merida had more than 10,000 fans. There was surely a larger crowd in Merida than usual since Yucatan shows always draw well, but none of the usual news pages had results from that show, and none of these alleged 10,000 persons posted a picture from that show in the internet.
All that is very questionable, and that’s why the attendance figures in the observer can’t be taken seriously. They are right when they call the CMLL management a bunch of backward idiots, they are right when they call their booking antiquated, and they are right when they call the edited CMLL television shows an unwatchable bullshit.
But on the other hand, they don’t question the attendance numbers they receive, they do not compare them with pictures from the shows, they don’t question the repetitive “overtake” stories in AAA (LLL, Legion Extranjera, Perros del Mal/TNA/Sociedad, now El Consejo), they don’t question “big audience reactions” in AAA, and so on. They rarely waste one word on the wrestling quality in AAA, but if there is a bad match in CMLL, they call it a bad match. Just compare the number of AAA matches and the number of CMLL matches in the best matches of 2011 topic here at luchablog, and then compare the observer complaints about AAA and CMLL.
They are absolutely right when they list everything what sucks in CMLL, but they see everything that happens in AAA through rose-colored glasses.
Another fine example for Observer partiality: they say the January 3rd show drew 8,400, “but that’s not a reflection of the show as much as they cut ticket prices way down”. In reality, the show poster show that the prices were exactly the same like all the Tuesday shows in 2011.
@ringo: Last Tuesday was a Fan Appreciation Show, no? The first Tuesday of every month always is. Meltzer was just noting even though 8,300 fans were in the building the total gate wouldn’t be that of a normal priced show where 8,300 fans attended. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.
I find it hard to believe Meltzer has any agenda towards bashing CMLL. These days if it doesn’t involve two dudes in tiny shorts fighting in an octagon putting each other in armbars Meltzer really doesn’t give a crap about it. The wrong numbers and not questioning his sources on stuff is less “I want to bash CMLL” and more “whatever it’s just my job to report this stuff I don’t even pay attention to”.
For what it’s worth in the Guerra De Titanes report from a few weeks back he did note (via his sources since he didn’t/won’t watch the show) some matches really stunk.
@Ringo: Only AAA figures seem to be pumped up. There are many reasons why. I don’t find WWE, TNA or CMLL to be exaggerated. Japan seems accurate too. ROH was slightly exaggerated when Gabe ran it.
Have you found any evidence of “10,000 in Morelia”? At least one pic or video? I thought it was a “Dia de innocentes” joke.
Many of the grosses for TNA and WWE are reported by Pollstar. Especially the international dates promoted by Live Nation. Sometimes OCESA will send out the AAA Triplemania numbers. They also release the WWE numbers for Europe, where Live Nation is the promoter. Many Observer readers attend WWE, TNA and ROH shows, so it’s easy to get accurate numbers. Who’s going to dispute “10,000 in Morelia” or the many other successes reported by AAA?
Still, I find AAA to be strong brand. Just a year ago I was talking about how AAA was the second strongest brand in wrestling behind WWE, and third most watched wrestling show in the US, thanks to the Sat/Sun airings on Galavision. Now they’re not even on in the US, a market they talk about conquering every year.
It’s sad that AAA can’t make their own television deal with a smaller network like LATV or Estrella for the US market, instead of getting dicked around by Galavision and Televisa. For a company that likes to go to court, spending years fighting LA Park and Mascara Sagrada, they can’t even put together favorable terms for television and licensing/touring(Steven Ship). I guess they’re not so tough when they can’t pick on wrestlers.
@Rob: The first tuesday in December had 5,100 according to the observer, this one had 8,400. That is a positive development, even it surely was influenced by families going with their children because of the holidays. When there is a positive development, why playing it down? Just look through the observers of the past two years, nearly every good CMLL attendance number contained an explanation why the number was not really good at all. At the same time, nearly every bad AAA attendance number was explained with freezing weather conditions and other events typical for the polar country of Mexico. Can’t you remember a bad CMLL attendance number that was exused by the observer? I’m not saying that Meltzer or Dr. Lucha are biased, I’m saying that they might not question good enough how biased their sources are. That might be CMLL’s fault because sources of Meltzer and Dr. Lucha could be on the CMLL boycot list, but all in all, when AAA has a weakness, the observer does not point that out as they would do with CMLL’s weaknesses, they often find excuses for AAA instead.
@ringo: Here’s the problem with what you wrote – Meltzer has no idea the first Tuesday in December drew 5,100 at the same prices that last Tuesday’s show was. Yes, he reported it but he doesn’t care enough to actually look it up and make a reasonable conclusion like you did. His job is just to report the numbers and people like yourself & Cubsfan can analyze it for what it really means.
I highly doubt Meltzer is getting CMLL attendance numbers from Konnan (if that’s what you are implying with the boycott comment). In fact I can guarantee you he isn’t. Meltzer may not care much about Lucha Libre but he knows enough to not report attendance figures given to him by a main rival.
@ringo: On F4Radio Dr. Lucha did criticize AAA for their brass knuckles ref bump finish at GdT.