It doesn’t pay to be a Mexican midcarder with tenure in AAA right now. The Gladiatores reports Intocable is the next to leave the promotion and will be an independent in August. Probably should’ve seen this coming with they hyped a big deal to find new backup dancers for him, and then it was cut to one short clip and never mentioned again. Or maybe Intocable being left off TripleMania and Alan Stone seemingly taking over his role.
Intocable’s a different animal than Calo or Scorpio or some of the others – he’s certainly not the worker, but he does have some drawing ability. (If NWA Mexico was not a fictional promotion, they would be rushing to the phone to get Intocable signed – the hair match programs you could do with him would be a big help for a startup, and it’s not another guy who seems past his prime.)
We can be pretty sure Intocable wouldn’t be leaving AAA if Antonio Pena was still alive. Other people are in charge now, and they seem more interested in letting the roster wither away to a smaller size for TV purposes. You don’t need a lot of people if you’re just running six matches a week with generally the same people.
That’s the other thing, though – AAA’s not really a TV promotion. They run spot shows all over the country in between TV tapings, and even against tapings – Elegido, Alebrije, and Gronda versus the Psycho Circus was main eventing another show the same night as TripleMania. AAA’s not a public company, so everything’s just a guess, but I’m figuring those booking fees are a nice revenue stream for the company. There comes a point where you’ve dropped enough talent that you can’t staff as many shows anymore. (The foreign guys are going to be in and out and not fill all those dates. Intocable was especially valuable, because he could be sold as a main eventer while guys like CIbernetico and Parka had reduced value.)
Either other guys are going be working a lot more or AAA’s shifting how it does business. They haven’t lost/dropped enough guys where everything has to change, but it seems part of the slight change of direction in the last year.
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Intocable gimmick is owned by AAA, so I guess this might be a tug of war as to how well or bad this kind of thing works for an unmasked guy. CMLL was rumored to have approached him a while ago, at the time when Latin Lover was apparently forcing AAA not to use him…
@xuisaw: He can always go back to Randy! I think if they put his face on a poster with the Cowboy hat on, they’ll be okay.
If CMLL taking Intocable means no more Leono, I can deal with it.
Also, FWIW, you can still use Chui if you’d like. I was just posting under that name once as a test to see if people who had posted before were getting auto approved (which turned out to be no, so I eventually turned off moderation.)
oh wow I screwed this up, huh? (It’s a post now. Gotta be careful of that page button.)
Ahhh. That was you Chui discussing Dish Mexico with us the other day. I thought it was USAUSA1.
After the fiasco with Mujeres Asesinas on SKY, people have had it with them.
MVS is doing a lot of promotions trying to get more people to subscribe to MAS TV and WWE fans are rumored to be going for it. I think once MAS TV and Dish Mexico get PPV capabilities back, they’ll do PPV’s for sure.
Well, I’m thinking I’ll use xuisaw everywhere now since I always forget passwords and even worse, usernames, and according to a few web search, it seems xuisaw doesn’t mean anything so I won’t get sued… hehehe… besides, my Tuco account was lost during a luchaworld server switch. DVDVRB apparently won’t let my change my nick though…
Intocable’s real name is Rene, Randy might also be part of AAA’s character, although he obviously has it easier than Abismo or any other masked guy. My guess is that, just like LA Park and Mr Niebla used Santito and AAA to get into CMLL, if Intocable goes indy and enjoys some success, he’ll be back in AAA as a main eventer and better paycheck, since everyone knows that’s where he belong… time will tell, of course.
I didn’t understand that usausa1 thing, hehe, I thought Mujeres Asesinas was part of TVC programming since they torture us with that during the lucha shows…
I’m totally lost myself
Is AAA bringing in new guys(outside the foreigners)?
We all heard about the potential AAA and ROH deal which I don’t get. Konnan is trippin with this idea especially since Gabe hates lucha.
@USAUSA1: I don’t think they’re specifically bringing in new guys, or even specifically getting rid of people.
But a some pseudo-class system seems to have developed over the last year, where there’s a core group of maybe 30 guys who get regular work – on TV and the bigger spot shows. AAA’s roster was more like 80 guys, and they used to feature more different guys on TV, but now those who aren’t in the core group are getting frozen out. If you’re guy like Scorpio or Intocable, you probably feel like you can get more bookings on your own then AAA is giving you.
el Tocable
Once again I must also bring this up:
Put yourself in Intocable’s position. He works the smaller AAA shows and will only draw if his face is on TV often. He has to work double shots at times. How much do you think he makes working that hard schedule? Then he looks at a guy like Teddy Hart being brought in who draws nobody and only has to work 2 or 3 shows a month (the TV tapings). Teddy gets his trans and apartment paid for, plus gets paid to wrestle. So he’s making more than Intocable.
It’s a no-brainer really. AAA is not a place for Mexicans any more. Those who are still around will slowly be phased out.
omg, if i have to hear about that ROH/AAA fabrication anymore. on another site it was “big news”, meanwhile it came out from the fact that Danielson is working a few extra dates and Konnan loves US indy guys. it makes no sense for AAA. no one in ROH can draw in Mexico. and if they are trading talent then AAA loses money on the shows that the guys they send to the U.S. miss. it just doesnt make any sense. ROH is a very small promotion in the U.S. while AAA is a main promotion in Mexico. it’s basically the same as AULL making an agreement with WWE to exchange wrestlers. i’m a fan of ROH and everything, but no one in that promotion can main event a big promotion in the U.S., Mexico, or Japan. none of them even have that much drawing power in the U.S. the only to come out of that promotion to become a main eventer is Samoa Joe. they promote great wrestling and in ring work, but that’s it. to get over in Mexico or a big promotion in the US you need charisma most of all. it’s the only reason Kenzo has a job and it’s what has carried Cibernetico to the top. sorry about the rant guys, but it’s just one of those things that’s so stupid that you have to comment on it.
now if this does turn out to be true then whoever is truly responsible for the deal on AAA’s part becomes the new dumbest person in the wrestling business and probaly in business in general.
Things have really gotten weird as it was not only Scorpio Jr and Zumbido, but Decniz and Guapito as well has jumped to IWRG!!!
No surprise. Two more talented wrestlers who just couldn’t cut it in AAA b/c of two disadvantages:
1. They aren’t white
2. They’re Mexican.
This is such backwards racism…
Rob you it the nail on the head: AAA is not for Mexicans anymore which is too bad since it is a Mexican wrestling company. Konnan thinks AAA is better off looking like an American independent league than a proffesional corporate Mexican wrestling company.
I’m not surprised by this at all. I mean we see the same guys on every week doing the same thing. It’s Hell Brothers vs Legion vs Secta, and the same thing happens every week, while the guys who people actually want to see are being put to the side and now being let go. AAA is on a downward spiral and we’re seeing it more and more as time goes by.
If AAA keeps going along with Konnan’s stuff then they deserve to go out of business just like WCW did.
Wow, you people are down on RoH and Konnan.
Who was Art Barr before Konnan brought him to Mexico? A convicted child molester who was going nowhere in the US. Konnan wants to recreate that success from the 90’s so he’s bringing gringos down to find another Art Barr.
RoH did 2,000+ at Hammerstein Ballroom in NYC with no tv. That’s impressive.
AAA is charging big dollars for tv tapings. They can afford to invest in future stars from abroad.
Foreigners in the mix has been going on for years in Mexico. How come no one complains about Sara Stock, Corleone, Koslov, etc…..?
My complaint with Konnan is the injury rate. But the recent AAA tv appears to be working because Mexican nationals always tell me what’s going on. It’s watchable to casual fans. CMLL is not(In all fairness, I base this on the FSE show).
Don’t worry, once Konnan has enough indy guys under his arm, he’ll jump into an American promotion with all of his guys just like with Azteca and WCW… problem is that the American promotion doesn’t exist.
You killed your argument, Keith. Art Barr got over huge b/c he was ART BARR. He was *THE* Gringo Loco. Imagine if Konnan had brought in Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Larry Zybysko, Scott Steiner and Rick Steiner all at the same time as Art Barr. It’d be overkill and nobody would get over.
ROH is pretty much bleeding cash right now according to tons of sources. Are you impressed by that?
Koslov, Corleone and Sarah all have their own defined roles in CMLL. They are all seperate and do their own thing. In AAA any foreigner that gets brought in is “another member of the Legion.” None of them can get over b/c they’re all the same in the eyes of the fans. Just more white boys all lumped together. The only one that has stood out is Jack Evans b/c he’s something special. Now if Konnan was a smart guy he’d send everyone home except Jack and devote all the time to getting Jack over huge as the main foreign star. Instead I’m sure we’ll be seeing 4 U.S. indy guys coming in next week to replace the Guapos VIP.
I thought Konnan would start looking for work when he potatoed Roldan.
Barr was an indie guy before he became a star.
Chui, I think 52mx is on hyper-cable. And I’m hearing that some people are dumping SKY to get MASTV just for the WWE PPV’s. Can you get MASTV in N. Laredo?
I simply thought your new name “xuisaw” was usausa1 who posts here. I didn’t know whose name it was, just that it was a regular with a new name.
i think it all boils down to Konnan himself not being Mexican. it’s why he doesnt care about them and also his time in WCW and TNA warped his mind into thinking that’s how to book a promotion. hopefully he doesnt bury Silver King. i dont see why they are spending all this maoney on foreign talent that cant draw in mexico when they can take that money and give it to one guy in mexico who can draw. there are a few names out there right now that can bring in fans. Santo is the obvious, but cheaper is Black Warrior, who can draw better than any foreigner they bring in and they definitely should have given Wagner what he wanted.
I don’t connect the tvtunner card unless it’s Saturday or Sunday, but although TVGuide.com says 67 is C52Mx, it’s actually another channel (22 from Mexico city) and channel 71 which is who knows what is TVC Deportes. There’s also AirCable or something like that and Sky, have not seen MasTV announced anywhere. Maybe AirCable is antennae transmitted and they’ve kept MasTV out or maybe they’re the same.
@Bruce:
Wagner, Santo Jr and Latin Lover are more expensive than Danielson, HF2 and Kenzo combined x3… you can even throw Lashley and Steiner there.
But before Art Barr became a star in Mexico, he was another journeyman indy, like Evans and Hart today. No different. Barr was even less in some ways. There was no guarantee he’d get over.
I think today’s younger Mexicans want to see a diverse lineup. And I think it’s better to create stars in Evans and Hart than spend on people like Lashley(a move I didn’t like). AAA tried to get Wagner, and he fucked them over, so I can’t say AAA is only trying to get white people on the roster.
RoH could be losing money. I don’t know. They have people under contract which could be bleeding them. They seem to draw well enough, and I hope they can survive.
and can you imagine the apartment Evans and Hart have? in a month when Hart quits for whatever reason, you’ll read about how cheap AAA was in their treatment of him.
Considering Teddy is wealthy on his own and has a high standard of living, I seriously doubt he would put up with being housed in a shitty run down place. He’d have been outta there by now.
My theory (along with my buddy who knows Teddy better than any of us) is that Teddy has only lasted this long b/c he’s afraid of doing his usual antics in a foreign country and worried if he pisses off the wrong guy he’ll have 50 Mexicans waiting to kick his ass backstage. As he gets more comfortable and the Mexicans keep disapearing from backstage he’ll revert to the Teddy we all know and love and he’ll be done with AAA in no time.
I didn’t know Teddy was a wealthy guy.
Do you think Teddy would lose his hair?
I’m shocked Teddy hasn’t been fired already? Didn’t he piss off AAA by booking himself in JAPW without telling AAA? Teddy will probably lose his hair to Chessman.
Intocable leaving is a minor blow because he wasn’t going to get pushed anyways. Konnan hates the stripper gimmicks. I’m just waiting for guys like Octagon or Zorro to leave AAA. That will be a big blow.
Interesting points you guys brought up. I think AAA is somewhat is trying to change with the times. Personally, most of the foreigners AAA brought in is guys I like or has work out for the better. Kenzo,Waltman,Evans,Hart and Danielson is pretty good. Plus, the Legion top wrestler is Zorro.
When you think about it,AAA don’t have a lot of foreigners on the roster to get upset over. Waltman,Kenzo,Hart,Evans and now Danielson(for the summer only).
@ xuisaw:
“Wagner, Santo Jr and Latin Lover are more expensive than Danielson, HF2 and Kenzo combined x3… you can even throw Lashley and Steiner there.”
wouldnt they still be able to make most of it back with the drawing power any of those three anyway though?
what about Black Warrior? he cant be too much more expensive than the foreigners that they bring in, and he can draw better than any foreigner.
CMLL probably has as many foreigners as AAA. I don’t think Waltman is coming back. Like I predicted months ago, WWE paid for his rehab, and now Vince will want his return-on-investment, so Waltman will work for WWE.
“Like I predicted months ago, WWE paid for his rehab, and now Vince will want his return-on-investment, so Waltman will work for WWE.”
o0
You say that as if the WWE needs or wants Waltman. I really don’t think the WWE paid for Waltmans rehab because they were hoping to get something out of it (from waltman). I assumed they did it because they didn’t want another wrestler associated with their company in the morgue or because of Waltmans friendship with trips, or a combination of the two.
What on earth makes you think the WWE is interested in hiring/using Waltman?
Waltman is not going back to WWE. he just worked the NWA 60th anniversary show and he’s set to work a few other indy shows. McMahon wants nothing to do with him.
@luchalibrelive!: oh oh list time! of the top of my head!
CMLL
– Marco
– Alex
– Dark Angel
– Ohara
– Okumura
– Pequeno Ninja
You could count Mentallo or Mascara Purpura, but I think we’re talking about “foreign stars brought in to be the stars they were elsewhere”, and those two are much more trainees that happen to be foreign born. (Plus, then we have to start figuring out where Danger fits in for AAA, and no one wants that.) Shocker’s another example – yes he’s a foreigner, but he’s not a foreigner who’s being gifted a spot which I think is the problem here.
AAA
– Konnan
– Mesias
– Kenzo
– Jack
– Teddy
– Head Hunter
– X-Pac did run in at TripleMania
– has anyone figured out if that was Davari? Still makes no sense.
Sabu’s given a big spot whenever he comes in. Scott Steiner and Bobby Lashley get big spots and only have to work the big shows. (No one’s still sure about Killer Clown.) Any other foreigner brought in automatically jumps ahead of 2/3rds of the roster. Who am I forgetting? I have a sneaking suspicion Zorro is not actually from Spain…
Say I’m forgetting a half dozen people in CMLL and they actually have more. The first real problem isn’t the count of foreign wrestlers, it’s the percentage. AAA’s shrinking their roster by freezing some guys out, but they’re only freezing out their Mexican talent. 10 guys out of 100 is a little, 10 guy out of 60 is more.
The second real problem is the foreign guys are all bunched towards the top of the card, because AAA can’t justify bringing them in if they’re not getting a huge push. The top Mexican guys aren’t going anywhere, and the foreign guys are mixed in with them – that doesn’t leave room for native AAA talent to move up and join them. Part of the fun of watching wrestling over the course of years is to watch people get better and move up the card. AAA’s not really allowing anyone to do that, because it’s the people who are working elsewhere who get that push to the top and everyone else is left to dry in the same spots. The Air Force push stalled, I don’t like the Mexican Powers but there was a time where they could’ve been more than a midcard act, Billy is in the same position he was way back when this angle started and so on. The only person primed for a breakout might be Ozz, but that’s because he’s tied to a foreign star (and can tag the pinfall for him on spot shows.)
@Valor Hold Alpha: As long as he has friends with power in the company, there’s always a small chance WWE will bring him back.
@luchalibrelive!:
You’re a little off on that one. Art worked for WCW before he went to Mexico and before heading to AAA, he did rather well in CMLL, so he had a lot more exposure than Danielson or any of the current indy guys have going right now. He was getting a lot more TV exposure than any of those guys have gotten prior to AAA.
@Alfredo:
Yeah, but CMLL’s Peña counts as AAA.
CMLL also has Goddess and Grey Shadow… plus a dozen or so that had worked in the Gran Prix tourneys and have been more protected that guys like Steiner or Hall. Evans and Hart have already jobbed thrice so you can not count them as “stars brought in”. Headhunter is an indy who works some dates with AAA and like Vampiro, can’t be considered foreigner anymore-same for Ultimo Dragon and Konnan.
Kenzo is not part of the same crop and Mesias was brought in during Peña’s time. In CMLL, Shocker and Mr Niebla returning from AAA and being given a top spot without earning it would cause the same uncomfort backstage, same for Wagner who even badmouthed them… Warrior, Tozcano and LizJr to a lesser extent, and even Villanos and heck, even the Laguneros can be seen as invaders since CMLL has always used the guys from GDL.
This is a matter of how big the pay check is, if AAA had met Mr Niebla’s price, he would have stayed, same for Guapos. Observer said that Steiner got 2500 for Rey de Reyes, Hijo del Santo & Latin Lover would laugh at that, heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if IWRG is paying Scorpio that much since it looks like most veterans are being paid around that figure, something AAA won’t do- and they’re easily the most able guys to do since they’re charging the most expensive tickets.
So, the alternative for AAA would be:
Dump Evans and Hart and hire Ultraman Jr and Hijo de Anibal who:
1-Suck
2-Would meant the same for the drawing
3-Will bore the crowd
4-Will refuse to job
5-Will be much more expensive since Indies are willing to book them as main eventers-
6-Did I mention they suck?
Dump Kenzo and bring Rayo Jr, same story. Get rid of XPac and get Blue Demon Jr… and of course, why bother bringing Danielson when you have Karloff Lagarde Jr right there!! Hey, let’s not stop at the foreigners and dump Secta and Vipers and bring Capos and Fake Jr to feud Villanos!!
I see some of you guys saying that foreigners have always been around and that CMLL has them too. The point is not that they’re being brought in, the point is that they’re taking precidence over the local guys and the company is adapting to them when it should be the other way around.
Somebody on this post said that AAA is trying to change with the times. They’re not trying to change with the times they’re trying to change into something more American and the problem is that they’re following the examples of American companies that have failed. Yes being around Vince Russo in WCW and TNA did warp Konnan’s mind into thinking this is the way wrestling has to be.
cubs hit it on the head. AAA is not pushing any domestic talent. El Elegido was getting a solid push and that’s been completely dropped. forget Kenzo, as he’s been down there for awhile, worked CMLL first and he fits in Mexico. but they keep bringing in foreign talent for one show or a few shows and they dont even have the guys put anyone over. at least if you’re bringing in someone for only one show make them put someone over. it’s a complete waste of money and a waste of a match. if they didnt bring in Lashley and Danielson and instead took the money that both of them got and gave it to Black Warrior, you’d then have both Black Warrior and Silver King coming in to set up fresh feuds and new matches and you have 2 guys that draw better than any foreigner they could get.
and i agree with xuisaw, they should bring in Rayo Jr. it’s also a nice way to push midcard guys by giving them WWA title shots from time to time.
Rayo…Now let’s not get carried away.;)
Rob’s going to have a stroke if he reads that!
Good point about being a TV promotion. The fact that Mexican wrestling is geared toward live events (to the point where they used to put 45 minute minis matches on TV) is a big attraction for me. It gives it a throwback feel to the American wrestling from when I was a kid, kind of. AAA has been trying to be more of a TV promotion, what with all the single fall matches and the (still dumb) six sided ring. I’m still enjoying AAA tho.
Teddy Hart is touring all over in Mexico …MEXICO!!! I guarantee he’s having a blast every night.
@Bruce: I soooooooo didn’t say that! Rayo, Anibal and the others are getting paid much more than what AAA is willing to do and that’s the reason guys are leaving, since they think they can make that much money working as indies or for CMLL.
Hey. I was all for the Mexican Powers getting a big push. I was all for the Halloween vs. Chessman feud building to a hair match.
Mexico vs. Foreigners has been going on for some time. I was at a show at Arena Mexico in summer 1997 with Santo vs. Felino and Atlantis, Rayo, ? vs. Steel, ?,? where the theme was Mexico vs. America.
Mesias was getting a huge push in AAA before Konnan got power, but now it’s somehow an issue. Kenzo ended up in AAA as he was already in Mexico, not brought in from Japan so he’s not an issue either. Headhunter has been in Mexico for over a decade, so he’s also someone who can’t be blamed on Konnan.
Soon we’ll be saying the Nicho is a foreign worker.
Isn’t Black Warrior back in CMLL? I thought I saw him at the last Cadena Tres show?
As for Domestic talent not being pushed, What about Zorro and Cibernetico? They are Mexican right? They were in the main event of Triplemania and the match that drawed the show along with Fabi/Mari and Vamp/Banderas. I agree that AAA has too much Foreign talent.
I think Vince will bring Waltman in because it’s wrestling we’re talking about. If Vince thinks Waltman is clean, and up to a run with DX, he’ll do it. Worst thing Waltman can do is go back to Mexico.
According to Arturo Rivera, this is the MR Niebla situation:
He was getting paid 1500 pesos, per show. He asked for a rise, and got 2500, but then came and said that CMLL was offering him 6000, AAA said, won’t pay you that, Mr Niebla left.
Marisela is the one signing the checks, you can’t blame Konnan for not meeting his price.
Money as usual, which is the bottom line to everyone in the business at the end of the day.
Stupid work so I missed this entire conversation and it’s too hard to join in the middle. I’ll just say to keep track of what happens with AAA over the next month. It should be a very interesting month and clearly show which direction AAA is headed in when it comes to which talent they’re keeping and which will be gone sooner rather than later.
If Abismo Negro joins CMLL, they ought to make a stable with him, Shokcer, Toscano, and Black Warrior. Their gimmick would be that they all get booked to face a single opponent, chances are, said opponent will win more matches by forfeit than actually being handicapped…
He should’ve been Tarzan Toscano.
Now one guy at elmartinete is saying only Scorpio Jr has left and that Guapito is regretting having shown for the angle and will ask to be back at AAA — might be a bogus post, but one never knows.