02/11: Coliseo, Metal says he’s NOT going to AAA, Moody Jack says he IS going to AAA

42 thoughts to “02/11: Coliseo, Metal says he’s NOT going to AAA, Moody Jack says he IS going to AAA”

1. That’s not a smart move by CMLL. Pulling the guys from Naucalpan is excessive. I can see not letting CMLL guys work the show Santo was on, and that’s it. Guess this will be a true test of determining who’s really CMLL and who is independent. If Perro Jr., Bucanero, Ultimo Guerrero, and Atlantis stop working Naucalpan, they’re CMLL. If they work Naucalpan, they’re indpendent, and “own their own gimmicks and can work anywhere”.

   This could be a great opportunity for AAA to have something of a homebase in Mexico City where the guys can get regular work. It would also freshen things up at Naucalpan, and provide some unique matchups for months to come.

2. wow, that Rey Mysterio thing is histerical. Rey Mysterio has not innovated any moves and all of his moves are copied from various wrestlers, so how can he say that Mistico copies his moves. also Mistico is the better wrestler and does the moves better. that’s just funny. wow.

   also the Nicho working the CMLL VIP show is interesting. is he now gone completely from AAA? he’s probaly going to no show anyway though.

3. Anyone want to start taking bets that the top guys on the Dodge Arena show will get themselves booked in Reynosa the day before or after the Dodge Arena show?

4. >he’s probaly going to no show anyway though.

   YES. That’s how Nicho will make it work.

   AAA’s posted last nighs taping results on there website. I’ll have them here in a bit.

5. “Rey Mysterio thing is histerical. Rey Mysterio has not innovated any moves and all of his moves are copied from various wrestlers”

   Seriously, you really believe that? Or much like Konnan being stuck in 1996, are you stuck on April 1st all year round?

6. please tell me one move that Mysterio has innovated then.

7. Ignoring the stupidest comment ever for now…

   – There is a youtube clip from last night where Super Astro nose-dives on a tope suicida when Rey Misterio is out of position. Scary stuff.

   – Super Muneco also has a podcast!

   – How awkward must it have been to see Celestial working against those rudos?

   – Who said Nicho was promoting in Tijuana?

   – Loco Castillo has the worst odds in the world but it’d be awesome if La Mascara beat Maximo in a brother vs brother match. Maximo might need some time off to get India pregnant. It’d take me about 3 seconds but perhaps he has been taking his gimmick a bit too seriously.;)

   – The CMLL video guy did a GREAT JOB covering up the semi-main from this Friday. He edited out the blown shoulderblock spot early on, Warrior no selling Shadow’s tope suicida and laughing, Olimpico blowing two straight armdrags from Panther and Warrior/Shadow coming to what seemed to be legit blows when Warrior stopped selling his moves.

8. “please tell me one move that Mysterio has innovated then.”

   http://www.youtube.com/RobViper13

   Find all the Rey videos.

9. are you seriously joking me? Rey Mysterio did not innovate any of the moves performed in that video. the word innovated means that he is the first to start doing the move. all of those moves were being performed even before Mysterio started wrestling. he did not innovate the Tiger Feint Kick, Suicide Dive, Plancha, Hurricanrana, Tilt-O-Whirl Backbreaker, etc. i’ve also never seen him break dance as Alex Koslov did in that video. i’m not bashing Mysterio, it’s just that he hasnt innovated any wrestling moves so he should not be talking about Mistico copying his copied moves.

   cool video though, great job if you edited yourself Rob.

10. I’ve been reading the Rey Mysterio and Mistico arguments. I’m not goig to get into who inovated what moves first because to be quite honest I don’t know who came up with what move. All I’m gonna say is that Mistico does get his overall style (wrestling style, look etc) from a younger Rey Mysterio. He doesn’t resemble Rey today but he does resemble Rey from 12 years ago.

    Furthermore I will add that everybody talks about Mistico imitating Rey Mysterio but nobody talks about Extreme Tiger. At least Mistico does it with class and style, and he has that special “something” to him. Extreme Tiger is just some rip off who does high risk move for the sake of shock value.

    And Finally good to Hear Latin Lover will do some TV before going away to Argentina.

11. “are you seriously joking me? Rey Mysterio did not innovate any of the moves performed in that video. the word innovated means that he is the first to start doing the move. all of those moves were being performed even before Mysterio started wrestling. he did not innovate the Tiger Feint Kick, Suicide Dive, Plancha, Hurricanrana, Tilt-O-Whirl Backbreaker, etc. i’ve also never seen him break dance as Alex Koslov did in that video. i’m not bashing Mysterio, it’s just that he hasnt innovated any wrestling moves so he should not be talking about Mistico copying his copied moves.”

    So what you’re saying is the only true innovators in this world are wrestlers you don’t know who worked in the 20’s.

    Tell me, who invented the Dragon Rana? Various frankensteiner variations out of impossible positions? Some of them to the floor no less. Who was the first to do a running somersault plancha into a frankensteiner? The first to do a springboard doomsday device with his uncle? The first person to do a somersault dive off the second rope in the ring to the floor? The first person to do a diving dropkick through the ropes to the floor? I could go on but you get my point… hopefully.

    The fact remains, while Rey might not have been the one to invent the 6-1-9, the first guy to ever do a dive, the first guy to ever use a huracanrana – he was the guy who PERFECTED and POPULARIZED those things. There will always be some Joe Shmoe working an indy show in Reynosa who claims that his great grandfather once used a 6-1-9 on his great grandmother during a domestic dispute but who gives a fuck? Rey took it to new levels and without him there’d be no hope for any Mexicans of making it big in America. Rey is the best wrestler, flyer, babyface/tecnico, anything else you want to add… EVER.

    Yes, this is a touchy subject b/c I can’t believe to this day there are still people that doubt Rey’s impact on the sport.

    Alex Koslov break dancing is innovation? Lou Thesz once fought in a slippery ring and did something resembling a break dance. Fire Koslov!

    As for the the Mistico/Rey deal, Mistico is similar to Rey circa 93-95 but I wouldn’t say he’s a total clone. He’s the closest we Rey fans have to re-experiencing what Rey brought to the sport though. Rey was a better worker overall and way more innovative. Mistico is more over, has more charisma and is a bigger star than Rey ever was in Mexico. It’s hard to compare them overall though b/c the product has changed so much. The core of Mistico’s gimmick and style is taken from Rey. Mistico definitely added his own touch though and shouldn’t be faulted just b/c he chose the best wrestler ever as a base to start from.

12. “””””””””
    Rey noted Mistico copies some of his moves, though probably because CMLL wants him to (and they do.)
    “””””””””

    I wonder if WWE wanted Rey Jr to say that…

13. Rey Jr is the best wrestler ever? I won’t even put him the top 10 but that’s a different argument.

14. Not really. I love seeing people’s top 10 lists that don’t include Rey. Go for it.

15. a few things, i thought we were talking about Mysterio, yet you mentioned the best wrestler ever. this can be disputed but in my eyes that would be Jack Brisco. Rey is not even close to the level that Brisco was at as a wrestler. i see now that you are a huge Mysterio mark so discussing this with you may become futile. the majority of Mysterio’s move list is ripped from Tiger Mask. Mysterio did not perfect or popularize the Tiger Feint Kick (619), Tiger Mask did. watch Sayama do the move and you’ll see it was already perfect. and taking a basic move and changing something makes it a new move, hence Taiji Ishimori’s reverse feint kick and Yoshitsune’s 741, which is one the best moves in all of wrestling and shows why he is the most innovative wrestler out there right now. he took the Tiger Feint Kick and went one step further and instead of going through the ropes, his legs go over the top rope and he kicks a guy on the turnbuckle. we also must both watch different Mysterio matches in the WWE. Mysterio does one of the worst Tiger Feint Kicks since returning from injury. he is way too slow and doesnt connect properly. i understand that you are a huge fan of his and you dont want to hear about how he rips from Tiger Mask and Ultimo Dragon, 2 guys who are truly innovative wrestlers. look how many wrestlers perform Tiger Feints and Feint Kicks and look at how many guys hit Asai Moonsaults. that should tell you something.

    and to answer your questions about who was first to do moves:

    Dragon Kid invented both the Dragonrana and somersaulting from the second rope inside the ring onto the outside of the ring. Dragon Kid is another innovator, most likely because he was trained by one of the greatest innovators ever. i believe you were trying to make the point that Rey did those things first, but he didnt. also the Springboard Doomsday Device was made famous by Mark and Jay Briscoe. they didnt innovate it, but they were the first to use the springboard variation instead of the top rope. you said various Frankensteiners, where do think the name came from? the guy that started it, Scott Steiner. also you cant do a running somersault plancha into a frankensteiner, it’s done into a hurricanrana, and Juventud Guerrera was doing it before Rey was, as Juventud did it to Rey in one of their early matches. and i’m not even going to get into the baseball slide, but just to let you know, Mysterio was not the first to do that move, as it was being done in the late 60s and any wrestler can do the move.

16. top 10:

    Jack Brisco
    Terry Funk
    Bruno Sammartino
    Harley Race
    Bob Backlund
    Superstar Graham
    Antonio Inoki
    Mitsuharu Misawa
    Mil Mascares
    Bret Hart

    i really hope that you’re not serious about Rey Mysterio being one of the top 10 wrestlers of all time, he doesnt even crack the top 100. worldwide and all time, he’s nowhere near the top tier. he’s not even in the top ten Jr. Heavyweights of all time.

17. Mil Mascaras?

18. Top 10? No
    Top 100? Yes, I doubt you can name an 100 wrestlers better overall and argue each one.

19. Mil Mascaras?

    Who knows, I may see him wrestle live soon. Someone is doing an indy Lucha show here in New York in about six weeks. Rey Sr. may be here too.

    Backlund? Are you from the Northeast? I’ve watched him a million times, and saw him lose the belt in MSG to Sheik. But even I understand why it was necessary to switch the title to Hogan.

    Ultimate Warrior should be on your list.

20. Mil Mascaras? The human joke? The guy who never sold a move in his life? The guy who forced his own son not to become a wrestler b/c he didn’t want a Mil Jr. running around and taking his bookings away? He spent more time sucking in his gut throughout his career than working matches.

    Superstar Graham was a roided freak who never knew how to wrestle. He also never knew how to live with a healthy body.

    Inoki is another joke which I won’t go into.

    Bret Hart is a fellow Canadian unfortunately. I’m embarassed to be represented by him. He’s better at stopping wars than wrestling.

    Your top 10 list seems to be more of a “the Observer told me who are great wrestlers and anyone who does flips has to be excluded because that isn’t wrestling” more than anything legit. There are numerous historians who even talk about how Sammartino was truly awful and would work 50 minute matches nightly simply because he did nothing and you can’t get tired from doing nothing.

    You obviously didn’t take my advice and watch the Rey videos b/c if you did you’d clearly see Rey doing the Dragon Rana in 1995 and 1996 respectively, both from a springboard and off the top rope like Dragon Kid does. Feel free to ignore video proof though.

    “also the Springboard Doomsday Device was made famous by Mark and Jay Briscoe.”

    So you also ignore the video clip of Rey doing it in 1995 with his uncle on a regular basis?

    “also you cant do a running somersault plancha into a frankensteiner, it’s done into a hurricanrana, and Juventud Guerrera was doing it before Rey was,”

    Once again – watch the Rey Mexico video. He does both versions. Into a huracanrana (on Eddy) and into a frankensteiner (on Psicosis).

    Juventud has *NEVER* done a running somersault into any sort of frankensteiner or huracanrana. I dare you to show me any proof of him doing that move either from his Mexico days or U.S. days or even Japan days. In fact if you show me video proof, I will drop this argument and say you were right.

    The fact is – I have video proof backing up everything I am saying about Rey. You have nothing but silly claims that my videos prove wrong.

    The ONLY things we agree were that Sayama was indeed an innovator as well as Ultimo Dragon. Oh, and I agree that Yoshitsune is probably the best at innovation from the current crop of flyers not in Mexico.

    Oh and not to burst your bubble but as you’ve been told before but refuse to accept – Taiji does not do a reverse feint kick except as a fake-out spot. Thus it isn’t a move. And even though you won’t believe it even though video exists – Turbo did that move back in 2001, two years before anyone knew who sailor boy Ishimori was.

    In closing…

    “he’s not even in the top ten Jr. Heavyweights of all time.”

    Why not just say “Hi my name is jlavaia and I’m stupid”?

    Something here really doesn’t make sense… a guy who seems to know Dragon Kid and the Briscoes but still has guys from the 60’s in his all-time top 10. You’d do yourself a favor coming up with your own opinions rather than trying to act ‘smart’.

21. BTW, for those who can’t read Spanish, I’ve finally figured out a way to describe 85% of the ByL forum: jlavaia times 500.

    Oh, and nobody tell Jose I insulted Mil Mascaras please or he may come here and reveal I used to be a huge Jay Briscoe fan. He was in MY top 10 of all-time at one point. Yep.

22. to cubs:

    i know Mascaras isnt in many people’s top ten and he no sold a ton of moves, but he was good in the ring and he put on some great matches with Superstar Graham and he’s definitely a top guy, i may rank him higher than most people would.

    to USAUSA:

    it’s very close, if he’s in the top 100, it would be in the 90s. we are talking all time, worldwide. he’s definitely not in the top 75. and realistically what has done that would rank him high. he’s one a world heavyweight title once, and he only got it because his uncle had just died. he has 1 major mask win, and at the time it wasnt a big win, it’s only considered big now because he unmasked Eddie Guerrero. yes, he’s immensely popular and very over but so are alot of guys. he didnt innovate anything and didnt bring anything new into wrestling. he hasnt trained anyone, he’s bad on the mic. granted, he’s very talented and when he was younger he was a phenomenal wrestler, but he’s not in a list of top 100 wrestlers of all time. if you’d really like i can list 100 wrestlers better than Rey. let me know.

23. Just to lighten things up:

    Keith/cubs – http://www.boxylucha.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=34449

    Let the bidding war begin!

24. “he’s one a world heavyweight title once,”

    Wrestling is a WORK. A ladder is a champion in Japan as we speak.

    “and he only got it because his uncle had just died.”

    Rey Sr. isn’t dead.

    “he has 1 major mask win, and at the time it wasnt a big win, it’s only considered big now because he unmasked Eddie Guerrero.”

    What the what the what.

    We can’t be talking about the same person here, can we?

    I get the feeling this is part of another argument I skipped over or jlavaia is more messed up than I thought…

25. Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera from ECW, i have it on VHS, but i cant find a video online to send you the link. and the Dragonrana was innovated by Dragon Kid. i never said Mysterio doesnt do the move, only that he didnt innovate it. in my top 10 i was listing top 10 as far as wrestling, mic skills, and impact on wrestling. here’s the top 10 of all time based solely on wrestling ability:

    all- time:

    – Jack Brisco
    – Mitsuharu Misawa
    – Harley Race
    – Bret Hart (bash all you want, just watch his matches from japan against the Bulldogs and against Sayama and against Misawa and in the US against Dibiase)
    – Kenta Kobashi
    – Satoru Sayama
    – Chris Benoit
    – Yuji Nagata
    – Kurt Angle
    – Dean Malenko

    top 10 Jr. Heavyweights all-time (some became heavyweight):

    – Satoru Sayama
    – Dynamite Kid
    – Tatsumi Fujinami
    – Ultimo Dragon
    – Great Sasuke
    – Jushin Liger
    – Chris Benoit
    – Dr. Wagner Jr.
    – Shinjiro Otani
    – Dean Malenko

    Mysterio isnt on any of those lists. i’m very interested to see your top 10 that includes Rey Mysterio though. also the Briscoes and Dragon Kid havent done enough yet to earn a spot in the top 10 all time wrestlers, neither one of the three are in the top 100 either. if 4 of your top 10 all time greatest wrestlers list are Mysterio, Dragon Kid, Jay Briscoe, and Mark Briscoe you either just started following wrestling or you dont know wrestling.

26. he got it because Eddie Guerrero died. i forgot they werent really related.
    please tell me the major mask wins that Mysterio has then.

27. oh and the ladder isnt champion anymore it lost the title. you’re of coarse referring to the comedy wrestling Iron Man Title from DDT which no true wrestling fan even considers to be a real title. it’s like the WWE Hardcore Title when they had that 24/7 rule. it’s a joke title for when they run their comedy shows.

28. “Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera from ECW, i have it on VHS, but i cant find a video online to send you the link.”

    I have every Rey/Juventud match on tape, DVD and my computer. Juventud never does that move. Either your memory is wrong or you are describing a different move.

    “and the Dragonrana was innovated by Dragon Kid. i never said Mysterio doesnt do the move, only that he didnt innovate it.”

    Simple question – what comes first: 1995 when Rey first used it or 1997 when Dragon Kid first used it?

    KURT ANGLE IN THE TOP 10! Oh brother. I feel like I’m arguing with Dave Meltzer. I quit.

    I have no top 10 list to share b/c I don’t have the Observer’s Top 100 book around to tell me who to pick.

    Please shoot me, cubs. I just wasted time arguing with someone who forgot Rey and Eddy weren’t related. Sorry for taking up everyone’s time.

29. You making fun of LADDER Rob? How dare you?

    Rey Jr. is great. He might be top 10 of Lucha Libre All time but no way is he top ten of worldwide all time.

30. I still don’t get how someone can rank Sammartino, Backlund, Inoki and Graham… meaning they’d have to have been around to see them wrestle regularly and yet still follows the DDT ladder’s title defenses. Something doesn’t add up.

31. Rob,

    see they have these 2 great inventions, 1 is the VCR, the other is the DVD Player. then there was this camera that was invented. so see matches were taped, and then dubbed, and then they can be found quite easily. if someone has wrestled in Japan at any point in there career i can get the match on DVD, other places at other times are sometimes more difficult. the fact that you dont agree that Inoki and Backlund were great wrestlers shows that you never saw them wrestler each other. you also must have missed the 2 fantastic Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe matches as well as you dont think Kurt Angle can wrestle. oh but i figured it out, you only like spotfests and not actual wrestling. just because you dont like a wrestler, doesnt mean they can’t wrestle. Kurt Angle is a great submission wrestler and hits some of the best suplexes in wrestling. hate him all you want, he was an olimpic level amateur wrestler and has been a perfect transition into pro wrestling. seeing as how he is a real wrestler, and reached the top of his weight class in the world in actual wrestling, how you can call him a bad wrestler. he doesnt miss spots, he knows what he’s doing, and i really think you just dont like him because TNA gives him way too much tv time for pointless skits. he’s also quite good on the mic, the complete opposite of Mysterio, who is just about the worst on the mic in WWE, i’d say only Jeff Hardy is worse, but it’s real close.

    also i follow DDT because they do have some non comedy matches, most of those involve one of my favorite wrestlers to watch, Kota Ibushi. you’d like him, he hits alot of high spots, but he can actually wrestle too, so i dont know.

    also, sorry i dont have Mysterio’s family tree memorized, but i cant care less about his personal life, i enjoy the actual matches in wrestling, not the storylines, not family stuff or any of the other things that go on outside of the ring. and i’m sorry you need some book to list your personal opinions on the top 10 wrestlers of all time.

32. I grew up a huge Backlund fan and saw every one of his WWF title defenses in 1983. Just curious to know what you see in him to rank him so high on that list? And I’m sure Backlund took steroids at times in his amateur and WWF tenure.

33. Once again – what is this TNA? Jeff Hardy still wrestles?

    Funny you say I like spotfests and then praise Kurt Angle who does the same 10,000 finishers match every single time since it’s all his giant steroided head knows.

    Don’t bother Keith, it’s obvious this guy (or 17 year old kid) is just repeating information he’s read from Meltzer-types who tell you who is good and who isn’t and why a spotfest is a bad thing.

    One day you should start forming your OWN opinions, jlavaia. And before you do that you can focus more on simple information like Rey and Eddy not being related rather than confusing yourself trying to memorize wrestlers from the 70’s that I doubt you’ve ever seen.

34. i love spotfests, but i also love actual wrestling. also who cares if they use steroids? seriously. this isnt baseball, it’s wrestling, entertainment, not a sport. the fact that you say you’re a Jay Brisco fan and you seem to know US indys and thenyou dont know TNA, the second largest promotion in the US, tells me that you dont follow wrestling. you dont know that Jeff Hardy still wrestles. since you dont watch TNA and semmly never have heard of it, then you cant bash Kurt Angle, because you’ve never seen his best matches. the fact that you dont know that Jeff Hardy still wrestles also shows that you dont watch WWE, which means that you only watch Mysterio matches from 10-15 years ago when he was still able to move. if you watch any of his matches from 2008 you’ll see why he is no where near any top 10 list period. so basically, the only wrestling you watch is from the 90s, hence why you dont know that Backlund and Inoki were great wrestlers, you so them wrestle at the ends of their careers when they werent as good in the ring. all i’ve made is my OWN opinions, you havent made any opinions and have just bashed what i’ve said because you dont know any of the wrestlers i’ve named and you dont follow wrestling. and you cannot tell me you follow wrestling if you dont know what TNA is, dont watch WWE, think that the ladder is still champion in DDT, and actual think that Mysterio can hit a perfect Tiger Feint Kick when in reality he does one of the worst. you shouldnt insult someone because you dont like their opinion. it shows that you are immature and ignorant, and due to those things i’m also assuming you’re a racist. dont type out insults on this great site and ruin things for other people. and since you seem to think you are so much older than i am, then maybe you should try acting your age instead of acting like a 4 year old. this has taken up too much of my time, the fact that you stated that Rey Mysterio is the greatest wrestler ever shows how little you know of wrestling. grow up.

35. What does any of this have to do with Mascara Sagrada’s podcast?

36. LOL @ thecubsfan, I like Sagrada’s podcast, very entertaining.

    Amen, my God have we just taken this thing about Misterio a little too seriously.

    This is like when Billy Kidman says Brock Lesnar stole his move (Shooting Star Press), as i always say, if you didn’t create it, you cannot call it your move.

    He will always be, as Michael Cole and Jim Ross calls him, the greatest high flyer ever.

37. how can you call him the greatest high flyer ever. he was not better than Dynamite Kid.

38. Dynamite wasn’t really a high flyer, at least by my definition. He was quick, he did dives and stuff, but it isnt like he was nailing ranas and 360 degree moonflips.

    Kid was innovative as hell, but I wouldnt put him in the category of “highflyer” – at least how the term is used now. I mean, would you consider Antonio Rocca a hgigh flyer by todays standards?

39. i consider Kid a flyer. but he wasnt the best anyway. i think Great Sasuke is. no way was Rey Misterio Jr. he is a decent flyer but i dont think he is the best. there are quite a few guys that are better.

40. Wagner is working and worked IWRG shows, I guess that proves he’s not CMLL.

41. You’re right. This is goin to show us who is really CMLL and who is indie. I think AAA should try to work something out with Naucalpan.

42. Wagner is talking about working that CMB (WBC) show in Cancun… Chorros, I’m calling you for a place to stay :) Whoops tickets at 21,500, forget it!!

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